TrekWeb Home
YOUR ACCOUNT / NEWSLETTERS
Join! | Profile | Logout / Subscribe | Unsubscribe
Email
Password
AIR SCHEDULE
Next on Enterprise:
"Dawn"
1/8/03

TOS | TNG | DS9 | VOY
Current discussion topics at the STAR TREK BBS
What's wrong with the ship?
(Suliban Helix forum)

An idea for a MAJOR shake-up
(Suliban Helix forum)

Star Trek: Voyager - The Way Things Ought to Have Been
(Shore Leave forum)

Now THIS is a Nemesis review...
(Romulan Senate forum)

UK Nemesis a hit!
(Romulan Senate forum)

TrekWeb Newsbits: Extra coverage your crave!

Jan 07 | Paramount has created an award consideration web site, including STAR TREK NEMESIS, submitting the film and others for Academy Award consideration. (Thanks to 'Matt Klamm')


Jan 05 | Palm Digital Media reports that the STAR TREK NEMESIS novelization was the #3 selling e-book in December 2002.


Jan 05 | Wigglefish has reviewed DS9: Rising Son and The Brave and the Bold, both 4/5 stars.


Jan 05 | The L.A. Times analyzes William Shatner's acting career.


Jan 04 | TREK novelist Peter David sounds off on the state of the franchise at his web site.


Jan 03 | Australia's TV1 will air a MAKING OF STAR TREK NEMESIS special on January 11th during its SCI-FI SECTOR @ 8p. (Thanks to 'Joe' for this)


Jan 03 | Cinescape has reviewed Pocket Books' THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD, giving it an A- in its full review.


Jan 02 | FilkJerk and BattlestarGalactica.com have ripped into Ronald D. Moore's BATTLESTAR GALACTICA script. (Thanks to 'Beth' for the tip)


LIVE EVENTS
Andre Bormanis -- Story Editor, ENTERPRISE
TBA
Submit Questions Now!
CURRENT MEDIA

  • First photos from "Dawn" now online at StarTrek.com.
  • STARDATES
    Dec 31, 2002: TNG Season 7 DVD Box Set U.S. Release
    Jan 3, 2003: STAR TREK NEMESIS hits UK theaters
    Jan 16, 2003: STAR TREK NEMESIS debuts in Germany
    Feb 6, 2003: STAR TREK NEMESIS debuts in Australia
    Feb 13, 2003: STAR TREK NEMESIS debuts in the Netherlands
    Feb 14, 2003: STAR TREK NEMESIS debuts in Brazil
    Feb 26, 2003: STAR TREK NEMESIS debuts in Hungary
    Feb 25, 2003: ST: DS9 Season One DVD Set U.S. Release
    Mar 4, 2003: STAR TREK IV: THE VOYAGE HOME Collector's Edition DVD Arrives
    Mar 21, 2003: STAR TREK NEMESIS debuts in Norway
    Mar 26, 2003: STAR TREK NEMSIS debuts in Belgium and France
    Mar 28, 2003: STAR TREK NEMESIS debuts in Sweden
    PROMENADE

    TrekWeb Merchants

    Buy anything! Every purchase supports TrekWeb!

    Amazon.co.uk
    Amazon.ca
    Amazon.de

    Buy anything, support TrekWeb!

    Buy anything, support TrekWeb!

    Black Star is the UK's largest video store and offers free shipping worldwide!

    www.BlackStar.co.uk - The UK's Biggest Video Store

    Featured Merchandise

    Pre-order ST:DS9 Season One DVD Set
    Pre-order ST:DS9 Season One


    ST:TNG Companion Revised Edition

    NEMESIS Soundtrack
    NEMESIS Soundtrack


    ST:TNG DVD Sets


    Buy the NEMESIS one-sheet to support TrekWeb!

    Amazon Honor System Click Here to Give Learn More

    Internet Explorer 5.5+ recommended for correct viewing.

    Privacy Policy

    Netscape Users: Version 6.x is recommended.

    Copyright © 1996-2003 Steve Krutzler and TrekWeb.com. All Rights Reserved.
    Writing Staff Explains How Fifth TREK is More About Character Than Sci-Fi
    Add TrekWeb Headlines To Your Web Site!

    Best bargain this side of the Gamma Quadrant!
    Place an ad today!


    Typhon Station is a very fastpaced PBeM RPG with skilled, experienced players and a warm sense of bonding and community. We play at the turn-of-the-century, 2400, and are located in the Typhon Expanses, bordering the Neutral Zone, proximate to the Romulan Empire, and near the Iconian Digs, and are on the first warning route of the original Borg Incursion.
    We have three stations to post from, SB 185, USS Odyssey, and USS Wraith. They all have general and particular storylines and all interact. This game is not for the faint of heart! The writing is superb and comes hot and heavy. We have some open spots and also we will consider character suggestions. So, longtime RPGers and novices, check us out. See if you want to make Typhon Station your home away from home.

    (0 comments | Add)

    Buy new STAR TREK toys to support TrekWeb!
    Posted: 00:46:56 on January 04 2003
    By: Steve Krutzler
    Dept: Enterprise | stenterprise.com

    Several ENTERPRISE staff writers speak in the new issue of Scr(i)pt Magazine about the process of writing for the show including Andre Bormanis, Mike Sussman and Phyllis Strong and David Wilcox. Bormanis describes the aim of ENTERPRISE when asked about the types of mistakes he commonly finds in pitch sessions with freelance writers.

    "They haven't absorbed how Enterprise is significantly different from those other shows," Bormanis explains. "They tend to pitch sort of big canvas, science fiction "A" stories with a lot of science fiction plot and very little if nothing with our characters: Captain Archer, T'Pol, Commander Tucker, Mister Reed, etc. We want to tell stories about the lives of these deep space pioneers. First and foremost, the stories should be about the people on this ship. And the common mistake that the writers who are coming in to pitch are making is that they're telling stories that are all science fiction plot and have little if anything to do with our people. It could be any people. It could be Captain Picard, Captain Janeway. And the key to making stories on this show work is to make them much more personal, really deeply rooted in the lives of these characters, and giving it the texture of, 'These are the deep space pioneers.'"

    He continues, saying ENTERPRISE is more interested in character drama than traditional science fiction.

    "We really want to tell our stories from the point of view of these characters. I think that in the other series, the stories were a little more objective, if that's the right term. They were more about the circumstances and the events, the dilemmas posed by the circumstances and events rather than how Captain Picard personally was dealing with the situation on Sigma Draconis 12. Certainly that was an element of it, but it was more about the situations and the science fictional elements than the people on our other shows."

    Writing dialogue for ENTERPRISE is particularly daunting for writers used to the TNG, DS9 and VOY molds. Bormanis sums up the goal with ENT dialogue: "Loosening it up to make the conversation more informal. And when they're talking about technical things, certainly they're going to use technical terms. But they're going to do it in a way that's a lot less formal - much more loose."

    Finally, Bormanis has high praise for co-creator Brannon Braga, who he credits with this more character-oriented angle.

    "The opportunity to work with somebody who is terrific as Brannon Braga has been the biggest learning experience of my career as a writer in television," says Bormanis. "He is not only a first-rate writer in terms of getting stuff on the page; dialogue and scene direction. But obviously, [he's] an incredibly creative guy. A great story developer. He is somebody who doesn't settle for less than the best it can be. He's always pushing us to write dialogue that's off-the-nose, that's not expositional. To show don't tell. All of those basic rules. He is great on picking up on the tone of a line, the structure of a scene, whether or not the scene has the necessary depth. And he's terrific with character."

    David Wilcox, the newest member of the ENTERPRISE writing staff shares his insights as well. Wilcox reveals some of the common plots freelancers pitch unsuccessfully to TREK over the years.

    "The sentient planet is a 'crusty nugget'," he says, describing the type of story ideas that are old as dirt. "I pitched one of those. And anything with a bounty hunter is pretty crusty. Film crew on Enterprise is pretty old news as well. [Taking pitches] is a weird thing [for me]. You want to be very appreciative [and sensitive] of their work, but it's a very hard process."

    Phyllis Strong says writing for ENTERPRISE after VOYAGER is particularly challenging.

    "Even the script we are writing now," he says, "which is our sixth for the show, we get notes like, 'This is like a Voyager scene. Do better.'"

    Writing partner Mike Sussman reiterates the aim of ENTERPRISE to avoid sci-fi plotting and focus on characters: ""We want ideas that are unique to Enterprise and couldn't necessarily be turned into a Voyager or a Deep Space Nine story — something that could only be done on our show. Those are hard to find."

    You can read a full transcript of the Bormanis and Wilcox interviews here, along with some remarks by Scott Bakula. In addition, more excerpts of Sussman and Strong can be found at StarTrek.com.


    React to this story below and then see what others are saying about this topic at the STAR TREK BBS.

    Join our monthly e-mail newsletter!

    See Also: STENTERPRISE.com Mission Logs



    Season Two (2002-2003)
    Prod #Title Airdate
    128 Shockwave, Part II 9/18/02
    127 Carbon Creek9/25/02
    129 Minefield10/02/02
    131 Dead Stop10/09/02
    130 A Night In Sickbay10/16/02
    132 Marauders10/30/02
    133 The Seventh11/06/02
    134 The Communicator11/13/02
    135 Singularity11/20/02
    136 Vanishing Point11/27/02
    137 Precious Cargo12/11/02
    138 The Catwalk12/18/02
    139 Dawn1/08/03
    140 Stigma2/05/03
    141 Cease Fire2/12/03
    142 Crash Landing2/19/03
    143 Canamar3/??/03
    144 The Crossing3/??/03
    Season One (2001-2002)

    TREKWEB TALKBACK
    (96 comments)

    Sort Controls:
    Start New Thread | Help!
    time is running out
    By cherno72 () at 14:18:23 on January 06 2003
    URL: | User Info
    I guess that illuminates the problem: they REALLY do believe what they're writing is good character driven stories and that their stories are unique from the standard TNG/Voyager formula. Sometimes it's hard to recognize what you're doing when you're so close to the material. Of course, now the studio will see what they're doing as the problem for the falling ratings, so we'll see more action and underwear. It will help a little for a few episodes, and then the ratings will flat-line and then gradually fall. The fact is this show is too expensive for a fourth place network. If the ratings fall just even a little bit more--UPN will have to kill it. It's only a matter of time: tick, tick, tick, tick, tick......

    [ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]

    Characters?
    By cooper2000 () at 13:35:25 on January 06 2003
    URL: | User Info
    Thes people are in denial. I have yet to see a story about characters. Ive seen underwear stories and rubdowns but this show has yet to take chances and it sure is not about Character development or Sci Fi. It have Sci Fi as a backdrop but has yet to deliver the goods.
    I see now, this show doesnt get better because all of the writers are in denial, including Berman and Braga.

    [ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]

    Sci-Fi Plots from Classic Tales
    By falcon () at 12:55:07 on January 06 2003
    URL: | User Info
    What many writers, including (apparently) Bormanis, Strong and Susskind don't understand, is that many sci-fi plots are really knockoffs of classic storylines...many of which involved strong character development. Take Norman Spinrad's "The Doomsday Machine" from TOS. That story was a re-telling (in a sci-fi format) of "Moby Dick." Yet, if you look closely, the strongest elements weren't those of the doomsday machine, the Enterprise, or the fact that Kirk used the Constellation's impulse engines to destroy the planet-killer. The real drama was in William Windom's portrayal of Commodore Decker...how he turned from anguished captain to a man obsessed with destroying the planet-killer, and his takeover of the Enterprise to accomplish that, and his final self-sacrifice. Those are the elements that stand out for me. Granted, the same elements could be found in "Gunsmoke," "Mannix," or "NYPD Blue," for that matter...but the important thing in this case was the story, not the surroundings. This is where the entire creative staff of Enterprise misses the boat, and one small reason I'm glad they didn't put "Star Trek" in the title.



    ---


    falcon

    [ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]

    So, am I missing something here?
    By JagMan () at 10:50:56 on January 06 2003
    URL: http:// | User Info
    They're talking about one show and delivering something else completely. We all love character driven stories and part of the excitement of watching a new group of characters on a new fromtier was to explore the dangers and excitement that awaited them. So far it's been a trip through the park.

    Love their take on things. I'm just hoping that they'll ultimately remeber what the hell it is they're supposed to be writing and what their original goals were in creating this series. So far they're not delivering the goods.

    [ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]

    So I'm a moron?
    By Hbasm () at 17:56:34 on January 05 2003
    URL: | User Info
    I see some of you are angry. Well sometimes I get angry too, so words get exaggerated. But do you really think, I'm a moron because I enjoy Enterprise for the most part, and will continue to support it?

    You're very convinced that Enterprise is a poor show! You liked the other series more. But there are probably also musical styles you don't like, and pieces of art you don't value. Other people may think differently. So are they morons?

    Of course, it is unfortunate every time a Trekker turn his back on Enterprise. But Enterprise is doing well in terms of what it's supposed to do. The show has some qualities that the other series didn't have as much. You skip all over it.

    It reminds me of cultural differences. Klingons usually don't think much of humans. Similary, you don't think much of Enterprise, but it doesn't actually tell wether or not Enterprise is a good show, it just tells about you. Maybe you're not the kind of person who value a style like this.

    You keep looking for elements that aren't there, elements that are too common, or elements you don't like. I can't believe, there is NOTHING you don't like about the show? But in that case: If you ever liked TNG it was probably because you didn't have other choices back then, to watch a sci-fi show. Or because you didn't know yourself as much as you do now. Now we've seen so much Star Trek, that we know exactly what we like, and don't like.

    But don't expect every Trekker to agree with you. We were all more or less in that situation back in 1987.

    If the current style doesn't suit you, but you don't want to leave Star Trek, then you'll do yourself a favor if you stop reading those negative opinons from people. It may sound strange that I say this, but I think it just gives you more to worry about and dislike.

    Focus more on what you like, or what other people like about the show. The producers have the right to try out new ideas, they are always experimenting, usually in a subtle way. But most of the time, they keep it very much in line of what is "Star Trek" so I don't see why you need to fall over them.. Maybe you'll be more lucky in a year or two, when the style changes again.. And maybe I'll be unhappy with that.

    But it's not heathly to keep complaining, and to some extend you decide your own attitude, and how much joy to get from it.. This is, assuming you won't leave Star Trek.. And I'd rather see you stay.

    [ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]

    No Wonder Trek Is Dying!
    By Cinepixel (cinepixel@mail.ev1.net) at 16:10:25 on January 05 2003
    URL: | User Info
    The philosophy behind the writing of modern Trek is SCREWED UP!

    Bormanis speaks as if science-fiction is the LAST thing they want. Hello?! This is STAR TREK! The original series WAS science-fiction! They used science fiction writers and it worked as such and gained a following based upon the ground-breaking writing of that original series! The greatest Star Trek characters ever grew out of the entertaining storylines that also had something to say.

    The current writers are clueless. I don't understand why they won't go and make their own series and call it something else -- certainly what they are now doing is not Star Trek and they are going out of their way to make it as unlike Star Trek as possible. Hell, it's not even good science-fiction. But then again they are proud of that.

    Enterprise uses Baywatch writers and a tired writing staff that thinks sci-fi concepts are a liability. You can't have good characters without good storylines! The characters GROW OUT OF the stories -- and the circumstances (in Star Trek's case, science-fiction circumstances)the characters find themselves or get themselves into! Nobody wants to sit down and watch the characters spew boring dialogue back and forth for an hour in boring non-science-fiction plots. This is why I quit watching Enterprise.

    This is exactly what is killing Star Trek. They are chasing off fans of Star Trek who have been around faithfully for years and fought to bring it back during the 60's and 70's. They are deluding themselves if they think anyone else cares about Star Trek if the longtime fans don't.

    Star Trek should die and not come back for about 10-15 years with a new production team and a writing staff that has a clue as to how to write Star Trek.

    Cinepixel

    ---

    "See this? This is my BOOMSTICK!!!"
    Ash from ARMY OF DARKNESS

    [ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]

    obvious truths
    By psp1 () at 14:27:38 on January 05 2003
    URL: | User Info
    Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. And a terrible sci-fi show is just a terrible sci-fi show.
    All the sophistry in the world from the 'sophisticated' writes cannot explain away the poor quality of 'Enterprise'. Whether they are trying to be a character drama or not is immaterial- the show is really poor.
    The writing is grade school level and the acting is terrible. Acting has never been the forte in any of the Trek series, but it has atleast been serviceable.
    Similarly, while writing on the Trek series has not been consitently brilliant, it has been passable even in its worst moments, compared to other series.
    Enterprise fails on both these fronts. The writers need to get off their perch, realize that they are flunking, and work harder to produce decent material.
    These guys are really insulting the intelligence and the common sense of every viewer with their complex explanations for their ineptitude.

    ---

    psp1

    [ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]

    I see it differently
    By Defiant () at 08:55:06 on January 05 2003
    URL: http:// | User Info
    I learned that Trek series work like this:

    Season 1-Sucks. All about charcter development.

    Season 2-Sucks, but less. More char. dev.

    Season 3-Things start to look good.

    Season 4-6-GOOD episodes.

    Season 7-a minor decline, but still good episodes.

    Look at TNG, DS9 and VOY....works for me :)

    -Defiant

    [ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]

    This hilarious PR exercise for ENTERPRISE is hilarious, my Dear Watson
    By Alawi () at 07:40:24 on January 05 2003
    URL: | User Info
    This article was one of the funniest I have EVER read on this forum.

    A bunch of writing interns praising Braga as the second coming and then talking about ENTERPRISE being about character - oh yeah, Hoshi's ghost and Archer reminiscing about his dog, indeed.

    Character my foot. How about some science fiction stories? How about stories related to the Star Trek lore?

    Steve is absolutely right. You start with a good story and then you build character arcs.

    The writers sounded holier than thou and nervous and defensive.

    They should be.

    Their meal tickets will end soon from the likes of it.

    [ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]

    Character and Trek
    By Bondo () at 04:11:04 on January 05 2003
    URL: | User Info
    They haven't had a single episode that couldn't have been done on another show (because of Character). The Prequel concept has produced things like "First Contact with the Klingons/Andorians/Romulans"
    but that is it.

    'This is like a Voyager scene. Do better.'"

    Taken out of context, this is hilarious. By far the best line, in a script or otherwise, I’ve seen attributed to Braga in a long time.

    I always hated Voy’s 50/50 episodes, the ones that started with a focus on say, Tuvok, for the first half the episode and then turned to Paris or Seven for the last half. It was clunky and not a way to tell a story or develop characters. It was clear that the “science fiction” plot was the only critical part of the episode and reinforced the notion that voyager was a cast of plugins.

    And they are right about TNG as well. My first clear indication that Berman was full of crap was during the TNG series finale documentary/retrospective. Berman talks about the characters, concocting wilder mistruths as he talks about each character. Then he says something like “and we gave Beverly quite a workout. She has developed over the course of the series and her mother relationship with Wesley has evolved.” The very Idea that he could pass Bev off as a developed character—and congratulate the series for it-- is ludicrous.

    However All the other Trek series have done what Ent wants to do, and they have done it better than Enterprise. A slightly skewed example is “Sarek”—It dealt with the effects on Picard, not the events of Sarek’s diplomatic talks. And DS9 did this almost continuously.

    Enterprise’s supposed focus on character is necessary because it theoretically lessens the impact of direct ripoff plots, because it is an admission that Trek is a creative ghost town. They have no original sci fi plots, and they have demonstrated an inability to improve on the plots of the past. That doesn’t mean the writers are successful, they have only created one dimensional characters unless you consider the muddled mess of Archer, Hoshi, and Reed as developed. T’pol is on the high end of ent’s development curve, dramatically and figuratively.


    ---

    "Since when do you have to agree with people to defend them from injustice?"
    -- Lillian Hellman

    [ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]

    I'll keep this simple...
    By prometheus 59650 () at 22:10:30 on January 04 2003
    URL: http:// | User Info
    ...In writing, if you have to write, then EXPLAIN what you're trying to do after the fact, you're not doing it right.



    ---

    "Remember all that 'We come in peace' stuff? ...Bite me." --Colonel Jack O'Neil, Stargate SG-1

    [ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]

    Well I think we know where the blame lies for ENT...
    By DevlinC () at 18:00:18 on January 04 2003
    URL: | User Info
    All along, it wasn't Berman and Braga (the guys that brought us The Next Generation.. and, admittedly, DS9 & Voyager), it was these crappy new writers. They are new right? I mean, I don't recognise any of those names and certainly anyone who wrote for TNG wouldn't be saying that.

    The very idea that TNG wasn't about character insults me. TNG was a drama (not a soap opera like Voyager, there's a subtle difference) about characters and how those characters react to each other. There were CONSTANT story arcs. Even if you hate the movies, you can see that. Even if you hate the SERIES you can see that.

    You almost get the impression that they're trying to compensate for the "failure" of Nemesis by going "oh no, Enterprise is a much more progressive show than TNG". If Enterprise can get as good as TNG's FIRST SEASON in it's entire 7 season run I'll be impressed.

    [ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]

    I'd watch my mouth
    By Ryanside () at 16:28:37 on January 04 2003
    URL: | User Info
    Maybe they should do an episode about how first contact not only brought humanity together but also robbed them of their humanity. For some reason, the trek writer feel unwilling or unable to write these players as human beings. It's not style, its not character, its stiffness not seen since the british ruled the oceans.

    As a published script writer myself (hear my ego burst) I find myself wanting to take back every VHS recording I buy of Enterprise, magically reclaim every 45 minutes (no ad breaks thank god) Ive wasted watching what appears to be particial emotionally retarded plodds running around getting themselves into situations that really should provoke more reaction.

    In the words of the matey and few comments down:

    Good grief!!

    :JR:

    [ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]

    Am I watching the same show?
    By Paul C (paul.cryer@ntlworld.com) at 16:22:38 on January 04 2003
    URL: http://www.theserpentslair.co.uk | User Info
    This had been said by others already in the thread, but am I watching the same show these guys are apparently writing for? Obviously not for it sounds like they write a wonderfully original show. ENT is the only time I have been tempted to give up on Trek, even VOY didn't do that for me. I find the characters dull, the plots recycled not just once or twice but three/four times, and not just from other Trek series, but from ENT itself! If Braga is so wonderful a writer, who is it that isn't letting him be creative?

    Paul

    ---

    Stargate SG-1 Website
    http://www.theserpentslair.co.uk

    [ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]

    Hey Steve....
    By viking5150 (viking5150@hotmail.com) at 14:57:27 on January 04 2003
    URL: | User Info
    ...why don't you submit an episode?

    You seem to be on to some things with you comments. I'm aware that script submissions aren't happening right now, but other than wasted time, what's the harm?

    As a side note, I do like ENT, but I agree that the writing is a bit flat compared to previous Trek series. I like the look of the show, but yes, it is more of the same from the Trek cannon.

    [ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]

    Why so loose?
    By BKPeak () at 13:58:19 on January 04 2003
    URL: | User Info
    Why do these people think that the ENT crew has to be so loose, just because other series were so professional? If you carry the idea back, then today's Navy would be no more organized than the crew of Gilligan's Island. Why can't the professionalism and order of today's armed forces continue into the time period of ENT?

    I totally agree with Steve's comments below. I hope someone's listening.

    [ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]

    What he's saying is good ...
    By timmer33 () at 12:08:46 on January 04 2003
    URL: | User Info
    ... but WTF??? A character drama? I agree with him that that is what Trek should be about. HOWEVER, it is NOT what they are doing on ENT. Instead we get crappy shows like the one where Tucker and that actress who couldn't act ripped off the storyline of TNG's "A PERFECT MATE." Characterization is a great idea! But when are they going to start??? I hate to say this, but if they don't start soon I think ENT could go the same route as VOY. There have been a few gems so far (The Temporal War arc and CARBON CREEK) but the last 5 episodes have been absolutely abysmal. Obviously Braga is not as good as this guy claims!

    [ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]

    It's a character drama!?
    By OutOfMyVulcan Mind () at 11:02:06 on January 04 2003
    URL: http:// | User Info
    In the 26 episodes of the first season we learnt that:

    Archer likes water polo, and is an erratic decision maker.

    Hoshi likes to translate, was scared of space exploration, but then felt better about it.

    Reed is a stiff-upper-lip guy who likes pineapples.

    Mayweather vaguely knows how to steer the ship.

    But, no really, it's a character drama! Good grief.

    [ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]

    Alas poor Star Trek, I knew it well...
    By Deslok (hammond_ecks@hotmail.com) at 07:43:38 on January 04 2003
    URL: http://40eridani.bravepages.com/welcome.html | User Info
    It's pretty sad that the writers feel compelled to defend themselves by "explaining" to the public what it is that they're trying to do. This approach to a Star Trek series is really not working. It's like McDonald's building a reputation for selling hamburgers, then switching to macrobiotic cuisine overnight and wondering why sales have slumped.

    Star Trek should stick with what Star Trek does best. While I agree that nothing resembling VOYAGER should ever soil the franchise again, there's a lot to be said for the stylistic approach of the other series. I don't care about Archer's water polo fetish or his little dog too! I want TOS/TNG/DS9 types of stories. Do they expect me to like this series simply because the Star Trek name is attached? I find that very insulting as a consumer and fan of the Star Trek franchise. Furthermore, if they want to do the kind of show they're talking about, they need to divorce themselves from the Star Trek franchise and create something completely new and different instead of destroying my favorite sci-fi concept. If they really have a deep seated need to do more character based stuff, then they need to do it better. These people are paid professionals, they should act like they're actually worth their paychecks instead of faking it all the time.

    I have been refraining from putting too much blame on the rest of the writing staff, but now I see clearly that they are all idiots and perhaps I will give up on Star Trek after all.

    *sigh

    I guess I'll wait and see what other "surprises" they have in store for the stupid fans that they seem to hate so much.

    I know I won't have a real desire to watch ENT every week unless something looks interesting, and I'll have no problem turning the TV off if it isn't.

    All the more reason for me to finish my own screenplay I guess.

    ---

    Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed frequently and for the same reasons.

    [ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]

    Sounds very nice
    By Hbasm () at 07:40:17 on January 04 2003
    URL: | User Info
    This is exactly the kind of turn I was hoping for all these years, while watching Voyager. Their attitude now, sounds like the attitude the producers had when DS9 was still young, and that put the ground for the breathtakingly last 3 seasons of DS9 in terms of depth with the characters. When they are striving for this goal again, I think it's possible they'll reach it! Wether or not they'll reach ALL the goals you people set for them, remains to be seen. The events and circumstances should not be forgotten, of course those should also provide some interesting material for the crew to absorb.. There is a potential for new stories in the sense, that these people have poor technology and almost no experience with alien cultures, and they need to find their footing and set the tone for the upcoming Federation.

    [ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]

    ENT is really good at character "relaxed" dialogue and consi
    By Bucky () at 04:35:26 on January 04 2003
    URL: | User Info
    when the characters are making speeches, it comes off as forced actualy. But I do find that they're actually doing a good job with keeping character interaction light and consistent - they *are* the same people from week to week no "Ok, I'll be a jerk this episode because the plot calls for it" ALA "Night" in VOYAGER. I think they aren't bullshiting there and I agree with that.

    Now, writting a consistent character and dialogue isn't really the be-all and end all of making good character-driven drama. The sci-fi plot shouldn't be necissary, it should be revolving around the characters who we know. This should be taken up a few notches on the show. I think they do have the tone down really good, now its time to start playing around with it.

    ---

    iamtheradioyouaretheradiowearetheradio


    The Smashing Pumpkins 1988-2000

    [ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]

    WTF?
    By JNelson () at 04:01:54 on January 04 2003
    URL: http://www.ao.net | User Info
    *raises his hand* Did anyone else scream "WTF!?!" at the top of their lungs after reading this article? WHAT character drama? Most of the characters are interchangeable, with the only differences being favorite foods and race! Most of the stories could happen (and usually HAVE happened) in more or less the same ways in the other series.

    My favorite series are ones like Buffy or DS9, where the genre elements are often times just the context for the larger character development. DS9 dealt with complicated issues through the metaphor of science fiction, and used the freedom of a fantasy world to create interesting new scenarios that couldn't happen in real life. Enterprise does neither. In Enterprise, sci-fi is used to find out what the crew would behave like if they were all irrational, but we don't discover anything new or even interesting about the characters in the process. They all reacted exactly the same. Character drama my ass!

    I will give them kudos for at least beginning to do a good job with episodes like "A Night in Sickbay", "Shuttlepod One", or even the continuing development of the underside of the Vulcan Gov't. Those are the few times when the show has managed to be surprising or engaging. I can only grow to love the characters if they begin to act like individuals, and not card-board cut-outs.

    If Enterprise is Berman and Braga's idea of a "character drama" show, then, well, there really is no hope for the show. I'm just gonna sit tight and hope they get the boot, cause if it's ever gonna happen, it's gonna happen soon.

    [ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]

    Well Said Steve...
    By MediaTrek (webmaster@mediatrek.com) at 02:33:31 on January 04 2003
    URL: http://www.mediatrek.com | User Info
    All I have to say is well said Steve. After reading this news post and your comments-- I just thought about how everyone has been complaining about Berman, but what about Braga? I never really thought his episodes (w/ out Ron Moore as a partner) stood out as good/enjoyable episodes. Just look at VGR? Need I say more? (note here: VGR season 7 w/ Braga not as involved was a little better then most other VGR)

    I say bring in someone like John Logan that knows the franchise, knows what makes drama, etc. I personally think "new blood" is good for the writing staff, but I really think they should know Trek and not be a newbie.

    There has just been so much of it now produced and I think that knowing the Trek universe helps more in knowing what is a bolder, and different direction.

    I have one last note-- the producers have to stop trying to "sex" up Trek. IE: 7of9 costume, T'Pol's consume, and a number of guest stars. Trek does not need that low-level attention-getting crap if it is good drama at heart. I just keep thinking Trek is getting more like a "She Spys" or "V.I.P." or some of the other crappy syndicated shows out in TV land.

    Oh and I watch "Boston Public" on FOX and I see more on the issues today in this world (even hinted like TOS did), then I get in even one SEASON on ENT.

    Arg. That is all from me for now. 2:30am here-- i'm going to get some shut eye. Night.

    [ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]

    ENT a show of contradictions
    By Steve Krutzler (s_krutzler@trekweb.com) at 01:27:49 on January 04 2003
    URL: http://trekweb.com/brittandsteve | User Info
    These remarks pretty much reiterate what I realized around the time of "A Night In Sickbay" and wrote a rather lengthy essay about in the Talkback of the episode's review. Due to current software limitations, that comment is not currently available. But I thought I'd add some thoughts here.

    I basically see ENT as a show of contradictions. On the one hand you have the writers explaining all this difference when most fans complain that ENT is nothing but rehash of previous series. Indeed ENT has succeeded in presenting more humanized characters, characters with more flaws, more common language and more "normal" idiosyncracies than the "supercompetents" of the other four series. But to me, this is belied by the fact that many of the plots are lifted from old series and lack of innovation in key areas like lighting, editing, makeup, production design and musical composition. You have characters who are far from perfect but it's almost like they're taking old TNG/DS9/VOY plots, inserting these new characters, pressing "play" and letting the chips fall as if that alone constitutes a "radical departure."

    The other thing I see is that while they are very concerned with making ENT's characters different from the characters in previous series, they have overlooked the fact that the show seems to become more like any other show on television. So choose the lesser of two evils. Should the scripts be easily transferrable to the TNG/DS9/VOY universe and characters or to the contemporary universe of just about any hour drama on television? Stories that deal exclusively with character inconsequentialities without any defining sci-fi or plot component are vacuous to me because I can get much better of that on a show like WEST WING. STAR TREK is best when combining sci-fi and plot with character development. I typically sum this up by saying: character development should emerge from story; story should not emerge from character development. In effect, scripts should not start with "we need to develop character X this week." Scripts should start with interesting stories that move the audience and if they do that, they will move the characters as a consequence. "Best of Both Worlds," "Yesterday's Enterprise," "Pale Moonlight," "Past Tense," "Inner Light," "Scorpion," "Memorial," "City On the Edge of Forever," even "Equinox" with its reset button and all--these are compelling stories from which character drama unfolds naturally as a consequence of the events taking place.

    Interestingly, as is usually the case, DS9 is forgotten when generalizing all previous STAR TREK series as "plot driven" and "not as much about the characters." Yet DS9 had more character development in it than any STAR TREK series, including ENTERPRISE. Rich backstories, hordes of guest characters, and tons of interlocking textuality to characters. To me, character drama is when Sisko has to decide whether to participate in the assassination of a Romulan dignitary to involve the Romulans in a war to save the quadrant. Or when Jake Sisko spends his entire adult life struggling to find the father he lost in a subspace accident years before or when Kira comes face to face with her own hatred of Cardassians or when Garak tortures Odo and begs him to give false information so he can stop the interrogation. THAT is character drama. THAT is compelling writing in my opinion. And THAT is not plot or sci-fi driven. DS9 had the most PLOT of any STAR TREK series, yet it was the characters that made the show shine and it was always character drama that triumphed in the end.

    To my mind, thusfar, ENTERPRISE hasn't done anything comparable. The character drama has been mostly uninspired and mundane from where I sit. Episodes with potential for drama like "Shuttlepod One" are for me left emtpy because they're complete copies of earlier shows. Not just classical literary story ideas that are universal to us all, but actual STAR TREK episodes themselves, sometimes already done twice or thrice. Too close for my comfort. ENT also presents installments like those of the temporal cold war that seem mostly vacuous of anything but A-B-C plot adventure plot progression. "Shockwave" is a good example. The first 15 minutes have Archer genuinely going somewhere that any other STAR TREK captain probably wouldn't have due to their training and sense of experience. But by the third act this was jettisoned and the rest of the show, including the conclusion, was a pretty much by-the-book adventure plot with little human drama other than the various colloquialisms of the week. ENT also does something that I think it really shouldn't, and that's ignoring Earth. For all the ballyhoo of how ENT is a radical departure, Earth is still apparently the "paradise" of the Roddenberry ethic and there is little conflict there or among our own crew. One of the things that made DS9's characters so compelling for me was that they were all in conflict. There was no easy consensus. Odo was at odds with Sisko who had a different agenda than Kira than Quark etc. ENT has enormous possibilities for showing us the struggles that Earth of the 22nd century has to go through in order to reach the Roddenberry ethic, yet all we get is a throwaway line that "disease, poverty, war" have been eliminated and apparently everyone is just living in a utopia where most people speak english, are happy to work with extra terrestials and are pretty much homogenized into the western secular culture. If anything, today's times cry out for a more rugged depiction of an Earth on the brink, fighting as much with itself to define its future as with the Vulcans. Should not the Enterprise mission serve as a means to unify Earth and prove that humanity can reach higher as much as it serves to show down the Vulcans? Where are the fundamentalists who distrust Vulcans? Where are those who think we haven't actually reached warp 5? Where are those who think Earth is moving too fast? Take a character like Mayweather, for instance. This is a guy raised in space. Imagine the potential for him to come into conflict with a potential xenophob like Reed or others on Earth who detest space travel. Or the possibilities for the Boomers to resist the encroachment of Starfleet into the space they've been operating in at warp 2 for decades? I applaud the attempt to make the characters more human and more "regular" and more flawed than any other STAR TREK crew. But I hope the ENT writers can find a way to make the episodes of their "space pioneers" more interesting, more compelling, more EVENTFUL, and more original.

    Part of this, I think, is in a complete reformulation of the TREK formula production-wise. Even if you were to grant that the writing is completely different (and I wouldn't), the show still LOOKS like TNG/DS9/VOY. Different nobs and computer read outs don't matter. It's the angles used, the lighting, the colors of the costumes, the MAKEUP OF THE ALIENS, sound of musical accompaniment, 2-D treatment of space, too easily translated-into-perfect-english alien languages. Radical changes along these lines would go a long way to making ENT actually feel different without having to explain to the viewers how it's SUPPOSED to be different.



    ---

    -Steve Krutzler
    ==V/-/== Rocks

    [ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]

    See what others are saying about this topic at the STAR TREK BBS.

    TOP STORIES

    Add TrekWeb Headlines To Your Site!

    CURRENT FEATURES
    OPINION POLLS
    How would you rate the latest ENT episode, THE CATWALK, on a scale from 1 (bad) to 10 (excellent) in comparison to the best and the worst episodes of all previous Star Trek episodes?